Comments on: Simple, But Unanswered Questions http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/ Speed is Life Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:04:51 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Steve K http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-549 Steve K Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:33:28 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-549 Can McD's put up even more money to get Bourdais on the track in Edmonton? Can McD’s put up even more money to get Bourdais on the track in Edmonton?

]]> By: JP http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-539 JP Sun, 12 Jul 2009 05:40:29 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-539 Could be a couple reasons why NHL added McD's stickers to Doornbos's car. It is sponsorphip silly season and with Newman gone - the sponsorship may not be guaranteed anymore. The second car could be a show of good will for negotiations (like Will Powers verizon car) or to increase the likelihood of recall if there is any research being done based on brand recall from these races. I think NHL may be pitching a deeper relationship with McD's around activation of Graham in some sort of endorsement role. Leading up to the race, the restaraunts in upstate NY were distributing cups with Graham on them. Perhaps a trial baloon for a wider campaign next year that follows the series from market to market or nationally around May. I suspect if they get McD's on for both cars, they may have to find someone a little more cordial and less apathetically disinterested than Robert has been this year. With the likely race(s) in Brazil next year it could be someone that MdD's could activate down there. Could be a couple reasons why NHL added McD’s stickers to Doornbos’s car. It is sponsorphip silly season and with Newman gone – the sponsorship may not be guaranteed anymore. The second car could be a show of good will for negotiations (like Will Powers verizon car) or to increase the likelihood of recall if there is any research being done based on brand recall from these races. I think NHL may be pitching a deeper relationship with McD’s around activation of Graham in some sort of endorsement role. Leading up to the race, the restaraunts in upstate NY were distributing cups with Graham on them. Perhaps a trial baloon for a wider campaign next year that follows the series from market to market or nationally around May.
I suspect if they get McD’s on for both cars, they may have to find someone a little more cordial and less apathetically disinterested than Robert has been this year. With the likely race(s) in Brazil next year it could be someone that MdD’s could activate down there.

]]> By: James O. http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-538 James O. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:18:49 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-538 Brought up by the Q&A about the McDonalds logo. It would be interesting to read the marketing research on the return-on-investment for some of the sponsors. It seems (to me) better as a way of introducing a brand than maintaining one. Using me as a typical viewer/consumer, I'd never have heard of Boost Mobile or Argent Mortgage if they weren't using Danica as spokeswoman or painting it on her car (and it's not just Danica. I know of ABC construction only because it's on old #14). But the McD logo doesn't do anything for me. I'm not more likely to get a Big Mac simply because I see it on the track. Brought up by the Q&A about the McDonalds logo. It would be interesting to read the marketing research on the return-on-investment for some of the sponsors. It seems (to me) better as a way of introducing a brand than maintaining one. Using me as a typical viewer/consumer, I’d never have heard of Boost Mobile or Argent Mortgage if they weren’t using Danica as spokeswoman or painting it on her car (and it’s not just Danica. I know of ABC construction only because it’s on old #14). But the McD logo doesn’t do anything for me. I’m not more likely to get a Big Mac simply because I see it on the track.

]]> By: Brian http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-537 Brian Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:19:28 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-537 caveat: I'm not a team owner or team member IndyCars are very draggy already ( cd .46+). If Panther Racing has mounted a small, 'lipstick'-type, low-res camera to an endplate, its effect on top speed is likely negiligible outside of Indy, Fontana and Michigan.I.S. Matte-finish paint which isn't in high-velocity airflow but is under the aforementioned boundary layer of slower air at the cars' surfaces, won't induce drag. If you were to paint the frontal area or wings of a 747 with something rough like coatings on HMMWVs or dehaviland Mosquitos, that'd be a different matter (literally). I'll bet that Dallara builds new tubs on demand when teams' tubs are irreparably damaged. It makes noses, wings and sidepods covers yearly. Race teams have paint booths and dedicated paint-and-decal team members. After most races, race car transporters/mobile shops are driven back to bases in Indy (or elsewhere) for resupply and to offload cars for rebuilding/repainting. They're seen departing race tracks a couple hours after each race unless a Monday test day follows. Even then, one of a team's two transporters will likely roll back to Indianapolis. Drivers' employment contracts provide for hotel rooms at/near race venues. Owned or leased motor coaches in Indys infield are a sensible exception for 3-4 weeks. NHL Racing likely applied McDonald's decals to Robert's car rather than run a plain black car or one reading only, "Hole In The Wall Gang Camps" or "Your Ad Here." Probably fostering some feel-good with McD's marketing czar(s) after Mr. Newman's passing and Sebastian's departure. Maybe McD's trickled-out a little extra money if it was told that Bobby D. is a hotshoe who might get his car camera time. After Justin Wilson and Bill Pappas and the rest of DCR performed in Saint Petersburg, Z-Line was likely urged to $tep-up $pon$orship. caveat: I’m not a team owner or team member
IndyCars are very draggy already ( cd .46+). If Panther Racing has mounted a small, ‘lipstick’-type, low-res camera to an endplate, its effect on top speed is likely negiligible outside of Indy, Fontana and Michigan.I.S.
Matte-finish paint which isn’t in high-velocity airflow but is under the aforementioned boundary layer of slower air at the cars’ surfaces, won’t induce drag. If you were to paint the frontal area or wings of a 747 with something rough like coatings on HMMWVs or dehaviland Mosquitos, that’d be a different matter (literally).
I’ll bet that Dallara builds new tubs on demand when teams’ tubs are irreparably damaged. It makes noses, wings and sidepods covers yearly.
Race teams have paint booths and dedicated paint-and-decal team members.
After most races, race car transporters/mobile shops are driven back to bases in Indy (or elsewhere) for resupply and to offload cars for rebuilding/repainting. They’re seen departing race tracks a couple hours after each race unless a Monday test day follows. Even then, one of a team’s two transporters will likely roll back to Indianapolis.
Drivers’ employment contracts provide for hotel rooms at/near race venues. Owned or leased motor coaches in Indys infield are a sensible exception for 3-4 weeks.
NHL Racing likely applied McDonald’s decals to Robert’s car rather than run a plain black car or one reading only, “Hole In The Wall Gang Camps” or “Your Ad Here.” Probably fostering some feel-good with McD’s marketing czar(s) after Mr. Newman’s passing and Sebastian’s departure. Maybe McD’s trickled-out a little extra money if it was told that Bobby D. is a hotshoe who might get his car camera time.
After Justin Wilson and Bill Pappas and the rest of DCR performed in Saint Petersburg, Z-Line was likely urged to $tep-up $pon$orship.

]]> By: Jim in Wilmington http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-536 Jim in Wilmington Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:25:49 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-536 I'll take a stab at te aero questions. A wing produces lift (and drag) by turning the air flow from it's original direction (forget all the Bernouli stuff you were taught in grade school). The more the flow is turned, the more lift is produced. A wicker really acts like a tiny flap on the trailing edge of the wing and kicks the flow up a last little bit. It changes the lift and drag coefficients. Lift is calculated by multiplying the lift coefficient times one half the air density times the air velocity squared times the wing area. Since the wing area is fairly large any change in the lift coefficient has a significant affect. In the case of the camera pod, the drag produced is what is know as form drag. The formula is similar the the lift formula exept for a couple of things; you substitute the drag coefficient of the form for the lift coeficient and the area you use is the area of the device. Since the area of the camera is small, so is the affect. I have to confess that I hadn't noticed Wheldon's camera. Does this mean that he doesn't have the normal Dallara camera o top of the air plenum? If so and the area of his camera is smaller, it may be an advantage. It shouldn't affect the performance of the tip plate. Incidentally, the tip plate's mission in life is to fool the air into thinking that the wing is longer (long thin wings are more efficient) than it acually is. It does this by breaking up the flow of high pressure air from the top of the wing down to the low pressure air on the bottom of the wing. This flow forms a vortex which trails behind the car and creates a lot of drag and is identical to the vwing tip vortex that forms behind a large air liner that can actually flip a small plane following in its wake. Finally, there are opposing theories on the affect of rough paint. However, most sources agree that as long as the roughness is thinner than the boundary layer (the thin layer of air next to the surface of the car that is not moving relative to the car), it has no affect at all. The kicker is that the boundary layer gets thinner as the speed increases. I know that when I used to wax my small plane, I could never see any affect at all on speed. On the other hand, during World War II, the Brittish had some special DeHavland Mosquittoes (400 mph top speed) painted with a special radar absorbing paint that was rough and reduced their top speed by 40 mph! My guess is that the affect on an Indy car is minimal. Jim I’ll take a stab at te aero questions.

A wing produces lift (and drag) by turning the air flow from it’s original direction (forget all the Bernouli stuff you were taught in grade school). The more the flow is turned, the more lift is produced. A wicker really acts like a tiny flap on the trailing edge of the wing and kicks the flow up a last little bit. It changes the lift and drag coefficients. Lift is calculated by multiplying the lift coefficient times one half the air density times the air velocity squared times the wing area. Since the wing area is fairly large any change in the lift coefficient has a significant affect. In the case of the camera pod, the drag produced is what is know as form drag. The formula is similar the the lift formula exept for a couple of things; you substitute the drag coefficient of the form for the lift coeficient and the area you use is the area of the device. Since the area of the camera is small, so is the affect. I have to confess that I hadn’t noticed Wheldon’s camera. Does this mean that he doesn’t have the normal Dallara camera o top of the air plenum? If so and the area of his camera is smaller, it may be an advantage. It shouldn’t affect the performance of the tip plate.

Incidentally, the tip plate’s mission in life is to fool the air into thinking that the wing is longer (long thin wings are more efficient) than it acually is. It does this by breaking up the flow of high pressure air from the top of the wing down to the low pressure air on the bottom of the wing. This flow forms a vortex which trails behind the car and creates a lot of drag and is identical to the vwing tip vortex that forms behind a large air liner that can actually flip a small plane following in its wake.

Finally, there are opposing theories on the affect of rough paint. However, most sources agree that as long as the roughness is thinner than the boundary layer (the thin layer of air next to the surface of the car that is not moving relative to the car), it has no affect at all. The kicker is that the boundary layer gets thinner as the speed increases. I know that when I used to wax my small plane, I could never see any affect at all on speed. On the other hand, during World War II, the Brittish had some special DeHavland Mosquittoes (400 mph top speed) painted with a special radar absorbing paint that was rough and reduced their top speed by 40 mph! My guess is that the affect on an Indy car is minimal.

Jim

]]> By: jerrycruz http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-535 jerrycruz Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:03:45 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-535 hoover, i agree with you 100%...this blog is great and I hope George posts the answers...keep on the good and professional writing...you have fans at the caribbean island of Puerto Rico... hoover, i agree with you 100%…this blog is great and I hope George posts the answers…keep on the good and professional writing…you have fans at the caribbean island of Puerto Rico…

]]> By: HooverOnTheWeb http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-534 HooverOnTheWeb Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:53:01 +0000 http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/simple-but-unanswered-questions/#comment-534 These are questions that we all want to know. I hope you post the answers if/as you get them. Maybe a seperate Q&A page? Not to "brown nose", but honestly Oilpressure is the most professionaly written and looking blog I read. Polls are fun and make me feel included in the fun. Just some unsolisited feedback. These are questions that we all want to know. I hope you post the answers if/as you get them. Maybe a seperate Q&A page?
Not to “brown nose”, but honestly Oilpressure is the most professionaly written and looking blog I read. Polls are fun and make me feel included in the fun. Just some unsolisited feedback.

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