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	<title>Comments on: Is It Time For The Hanford Device?</title>
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	<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/</link>
	<description>Speed is Life</description>
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		<title>By: Leigh O'Gorman</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leigh O'Gorman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Might well be beneficial on the ovals - we may never know though...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might well be beneficial on the ovals &#8211; we may never know though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The adjustable front wings F1 has this year are controlled by the driver.  There are only two positions - more downforce or less downforce.  I don&#039;t recall any of the F1 dirvers talking about using the adjustment during a race this year: it would be interesting to know how well this is working.

Adjustable front wings should allow the dirver to have more grip while drafting then switch to less drag when pulling out into clean air.  Of course the car in front would also be set to &quot;less drag&quot;.  So the device wouldn&#039;t increase the relative speed difference in this situation, but should allow the driver to feel more comfortable while trying to draft to pass.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The adjustable front wings F1 has this year are controlled by the driver.  There are only two positions &#8211; more downforce or less downforce.  I don&#8217;t recall any of the F1 dirvers talking about using the adjustment during a race this year: it would be interesting to know how well this is working.</p>
<p>Adjustable front wings should allow the dirver to have more grip while drafting then switch to less drag when pulling out into clean air.  Of course the car in front would also be set to &#8220;less drag&#8221;.  So the device wouldn&#8217;t increase the relative speed difference in this situation, but should allow the driver to feel more comfortable while trying to draft to pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Boo Boo</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boo Boo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 03:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yup, not really a &quot;Hanford&quot;---I meant to mention that in my other post, but forgot. The one on the Indy Car is a much smaller fence with a wicker on it. Nonetheless, the &quot;glorified wicker bill&quot; still has the effect of opening up a hole behind the car.

The reason the real Hanford was so big, though, was because the CART machines were so fast, not because they wanted to make passing easier. They were trying to slow the cars down. You really want to slow the IRL cars down more?

Here&#039;s the deal: a CART racer is not an Indy Car. An Indy Car gets much more of its down force from its wings (its often referred to as the &quot;big wing&quot; formula). They got little teeny tiny tunnels underneath the pods, whereas CART/ChampCar machines have the full monte. That&#039;s why the Hanford is doable for a CART race; because even when you totally foul the air with these planks on the rear wing, following cars still get all the down force they need from the underbody.

Surely, everybody knows by now that, in the current big wing formula, when the leader is running around the bottom line, and the following cars can&#039;t close the gap, it&#039;s because they are running in dirty air. They are losing down force, and they don&#039;t have enough grip to make a run at the lead car using a draft---which is still there, folks, even without the fabulous Hanford device.

Hanford = even more dirty air, therefore

Hanford = even less passing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, not really a &#8220;Hanford&#8221;&#8212;I meant to mention that in my other post, but forgot. The one on the Indy Car is a much smaller fence with a wicker on it. Nonetheless, the &#8220;glorified wicker bill&#8221; still has the effect of opening up a hole behind the car.</p>
<p>The reason the real Hanford was so big, though, was because the CART machines were so fast, not because they wanted to make passing easier. They were trying to slow the cars down. You really want to slow the IRL cars down more?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the deal: a CART racer is not an Indy Car. An Indy Car gets much more of its down force from its wings (its often referred to as the &#8220;big wing&#8221; formula). They got little teeny tiny tunnels underneath the pods, whereas CART/ChampCar machines have the full monte. That&#8217;s why the Hanford is doable for a CART race; because even when you totally foul the air with these planks on the rear wing, following cars still get all the down force they need from the underbody.</p>
<p>Surely, everybody knows by now that, in the current big wing formula, when the leader is running around the bottom line, and the following cars can&#8217;t close the gap, it&#8217;s because they are running in dirty air. They are losing down force, and they don&#8217;t have enough grip to make a run at the lead car using a draft&#8212;which is still there, folks, even without the fabulous Hanford device.</p>
<p>Hanford = even more dirty air, therefore</p>
<p>Hanford = even less passing.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh O'Gorman</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leigh O'Gorman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about adjustable wings like what they have in F1 now?  It hasn&#039;t helped massively on road circuits, but it&#039;d be interesting to see how it&#039;d work on an oval track.
Essentially, the front wing can be changed a few degree in either direction twice a lap - worth a try?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about adjustable wings like what they have in F1 now?  It hasn&#8217;t helped massively on road circuits, but it&#8217;d be interesting to see how it&#8217;d work on an oval track.<br />
Essentially, the front wing can be changed a few degree in either direction twice a lap &#8211; worth a try?</p>
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		<title>By: oilpressure</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oilpressure]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I saw that piece on the pre-race. That was a glorified wickerbill. The Hanford Device hung straight down from the entire trailing edge. I have inserted a picture onto the article.  --GP]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw that piece on the pre-race. That was a glorified wickerbill. The Hanford Device hung straight down from the entire trailing edge. I have inserted a picture onto the article.  &#8211;GP</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the Texas pre-race they had a segment that profiled a device that they attached to the back wing of the cars.  It was an air scoop on the top and bottom of the back wing used to slow the cars down.  They mentioned that it created a huge hole in the air behind the cars.  They indicated that they hoped it would lead to more close racing and passing.  Sounds like the Hanford device - or some variation on it.  

Problem is that it didn&#039;t work.  That was one incredibly boring race.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Texas pre-race they had a segment that profiled a device that they attached to the back wing of the cars.  It was an air scoop on the top and bottom of the back wing used to slow the cars down.  They mentioned that it created a huge hole in the air behind the cars.  They indicated that they hoped it would lead to more close racing and passing.  Sounds like the Hanford device &#8211; or some variation on it.  </p>
<p>Problem is that it didn&#8217;t work.  That was one incredibly boring race.</p>
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		<title>By: redd carr</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[redd carr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems like so many times a car will get a run on another one, but the car goes wacky when they actually try to pass.  Like you, I&#039;d at least like to hear Barnhart acknowledge the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like so many times a car will get a run on another one, but the car goes wacky when they actually try to pass.  Like you, I&#8217;d at least like to hear Barnhart acknowledge the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Boo Boo</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boo Boo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hate to bust yer bubble there, Bub, but it&#039;s already on the car.

At Texas.

WRT CART racing at Mich: It&#039;s real entertaining to watch Montoya and Andretti passing each other back and forth, until about the fourth or fifth pass... that&#039;s when you realize it&#039;s a circus act---and an extremely dangerous one at that. I pass you, now you pass me! Then I pass you, and you pass me! The person unfortunate enough to be leading the race coming off the last turn is a dead duck.

It&#039;s at that point that the guy in the lead starts trying scrape the other guy off on slower traffic at 240 MPH. Real safe racing there. End of day, CART racing on ovals was entertaining because it was insanely dangerous. Those days aren&#039;t coming back anymore than the blood sport days of the 70s when even the fans were getting killed.

Scott Goodyear stated during a broadcast from Mich that the only thing he liked about racing at Michigan was driving OUT of the parking lot after the race. Said he was just happy to be leaving in a car and not a helicopter. Said most of the drivers hated the place and would rather not race there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to bust yer bubble there, Bub, but it&#8217;s already on the car.</p>
<p>At Texas.</p>
<p>WRT CART racing at Mich: It&#8217;s real entertaining to watch Montoya and Andretti passing each other back and forth, until about the fourth or fifth pass&#8230; that&#8217;s when you realize it&#8217;s a circus act&#8212;and an extremely dangerous one at that. I pass you, now you pass me! Then I pass you, and you pass me! The person unfortunate enough to be leading the race coming off the last turn is a dead duck.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s at that point that the guy in the lead starts trying scrape the other guy off on slower traffic at 240 MPH. Real safe racing there. End of day, CART racing on ovals was entertaining because it was insanely dangerous. Those days aren&#8217;t coming back anymore than the blood sport days of the 70s when even the fans were getting killed.</p>
<p>Scott Goodyear stated during a broadcast from Mich that the only thing he liked about racing at Michigan was driving OUT of the parking lot after the race. Said he was just happy to be leaving in a car and not a helicopter. Said most of the drivers hated the place and would rather not race there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack in NC</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack in NC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you might be onto something, George.  What I would like to see would be something under the driver&#039;s control, sort of like the small airbrake that &quot;Silent Sam&quot; the STP turbine powered car in 1967 had.  

What I have in mind is some type of airflow disrupter that could give the driver more control of his own car, while possibly also giving him some control over what kind of air the car behind him is driving in.

I&#039;m an old yacht racer, having raced a number of different kinds of sailboats over the years.  Some of my favorite yacht racing is &quot;One Design&quot; racing, where the rules specify the design of the boats completely and the only difference between competitors comes from their skill in rigging and racing the boats.  That is pretty much where the IRL is today with each car running the same engine in the same chassis.  The problem is, there is so much parity in the field that we have these single file parades.

What makes yacht racing more interesting is that the track is wider, so to speak, and each boat can choose its own path to the mark, looking for favorable winds.  However, there are a couple of places on the course where all the boats have to be in the same place - at the starting line and at the marks where they make turns.  In these places, the winning boat usually has taken advantage of a position where they can use the backwash off their own sails to &quot;blanket&quot; their closest competitor.  

I think it would be interesting if Indy cars had some aerodynamic device like a spoiler or an airbrake under the control of the driver that could slow their own progress but also disrupt the airflow behind them. 

Who knows - it might make the parades even more inflexible, but it might also make for some very interesting racing.

Your basic premise is correct - in order to try any fix, aerodynamic or mechanical, first the League has to admit that there IS a problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you might be onto something, George.  What I would like to see would be something under the driver&#8217;s control, sort of like the small airbrake that &#8220;Silent Sam&#8221; the STP turbine powered car in 1967 had.  </p>
<p>What I have in mind is some type of airflow disrupter that could give the driver more control of his own car, while possibly also giving him some control over what kind of air the car behind him is driving in.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an old yacht racer, having raced a number of different kinds of sailboats over the years.  Some of my favorite yacht racing is &#8220;One Design&#8221; racing, where the rules specify the design of the boats completely and the only difference between competitors comes from their skill in rigging and racing the boats.  That is pretty much where the IRL is today with each car running the same engine in the same chassis.  The problem is, there is so much parity in the field that we have these single file parades.</p>
<p>What makes yacht racing more interesting is that the track is wider, so to speak, and each boat can choose its own path to the mark, looking for favorable winds.  However, there are a couple of places on the course where all the boats have to be in the same place &#8211; at the starting line and at the marks where they make turns.  In these places, the winning boat usually has taken advantage of a position where they can use the backwash off their own sails to &#8220;blanket&#8221; their closest competitor.  </p>
<p>I think it would be interesting if Indy cars had some aerodynamic device like a spoiler or an airbrake under the control of the driver that could slow their own progress but also disrupt the airflow behind them. </p>
<p>Who knows &#8211; it might make the parades even more inflexible, but it might also make for some very interesting racing.</p>
<p>Your basic premise is correct &#8211; in order to try any fix, aerodynamic or mechanical, first the League has to admit that there IS a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: bickelmom</title>
		<link>http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bickelmom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/is-it-time-for-the-hanford-device/#comment-368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Try something!  Anything!  I miss the excitement of racing!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try something!  Anything!  I miss the excitement of racing!</p>
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